What ard mhacha leaves out of his quote, deliberatly I am sure, is that these methods are tought as a means of training troops to resist such means of 'interogation!'

I do get a hard copy of the 'Observer' every week - Perhaps ard M can give us a bliky or scan of the full article - Cos if He don't I will !

But I am not holding my breath for any objective comment from Ard M.

Kevin - Please, you can be more objective. There is a right of those to critcise who's hands are clean.

I believe that you did not approve of the Liberation of Iraq. You, and anybody has a right to criticise. What I will not acept is those Governments and regimes who utilise humiliation and torture as a normal process, and that will include many in the middle east, throwing a wobbly on human rights in Iraq.

Torture is wrong - End of Story ! Not just selective "indignation" when it is politically expedient.

We also have to live in a world which is not perfect, we can only strive to make it less imperfect.

Gareth