The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #69657   Message #1183530
Posted By: George Papavgeris
12-May-04 - 03:52 AM
Thread Name: BS: Iraqis Beheading Americans
Subject: RE: BS: Iraqis Beheading Americans
Sad, very sad, the way we turn on each other over these events. If we folkies, supposedly more open-minded and better educated than others, cannot keep our calm, what chance does the wider community have?

Can we agree on a few salient points and stop asking each other to "bite us" or calling each other names in our frustration? I offer:

1. Mr Berg's act in going to Iraq at all, whatever his motives, was foolish. He may or may not have been a foolish man, but this time he got it wrong.
2. Nevertheless, he did not deserve to die for this foolish act. Much less, to die in such a way.
3. The documented maltreatment/abuse/torture of Iraqi prisoners by coalition soldiers and their contractors is despicable, and the arm of justice needs to reach all of those who bear responsibility up and down the chain. Whoever they are. I am willing to wait for the trials and inquiries to bring their verdict, now that it is in the public domain. And I am worried that there may be more such acts that have not seen the light of day yet.
4. While we do not condone the above two sets of acts, neither are we surprised that they are raising the stakes by escalating the violence perpetrated (and perceived) and we are likely to see much worse to come down the line.

Now, those four points alone should find us all in agreement, I hope. If not, I would really worry. I venture to offer a few more:

5. The Iraqi prisoners (those that have been abused/tortured and others) are either not involved in perpetrating Saddam's excesses and horrors, and even if some of them have been involved in such, their involvement is not yet proven - otherwise they would be under trial/sentence.
6. The coalition was not invited to liberate Iraq. The openly stated motives for attacking Iraq at all (WMDs, non-compliance with the 17 UN resolutions) have been de facto proven now to be false (WMDs - listen to the inspectors, not to me) or insufficient by themselves (the UN did not support an attack on Iraq on the basis of the non-compliance alone). The Al Qaeda links of the Iraqi state have not been proven either, though Al Qaeda undoubtedly operates in Iraq.
7. There is no other way to see our armies there than as occupying forces, therefore. Some may believe that this is till for the good - others doubt our intentions. The doubters include many of the Iraqi people.
8. Most "hearts and minds" efforts in Iraq have failed so far, as a result of 7 above. And actions like 3 above will certainly make things worse
9. The Iraqi people at large are not subhumans, or animals. They may harbour hatred for the occupying forces, but that is a normal reaction by any people who find themselves in their position.
10. There are those with agendas of their own who try to foment unrest and hatred against the US and UK. Fact. Also unsurprising.
11. There are those with agendas of their own who try to foment hatred against the Iraqis as a nation/people. Fact. Also unsurprising.
12. Religion is often used as a weapon/reason/excuse in such circumstances. So some of those in 10 above blame the "Christian infidels", and some of those in 11 above blame the Muslims. But the causes of all of the above are in fact nothing to do with religion. This is just about fanatics trying to capitalise on the situation.
13. None of the above should be happening.

Now, what does that leave to argue about?