Spoken like a true and patronising patriarch, Joe! I don't swallow for anyone, first of all. And, I've read plenty of literature of both men and women.That was a really cheap shot. I would suggest you open your mind and get outside of the theological box from which you are pontificating. I am NOT a separatist and anybody who has been on here and read most of my postings will not be so facetious as to assume so or claim that. I always advocate for balance. And that is what this has all been about; the need for the world of ALL people, to balance out, in a slow plod towards equality. If I have sounded like a bigot against men and religion I am sorry, but what I relate has been facts of the past and present and I do not apologise for that. The fact of the matter is that our world has been male-dominated for over 2,000 years and it is time for the pendulum to swing back towards a middle ground of sharing and caring. I don't care for your condescending holier-than-thou tone, Joe, you know me better than that.

Right now, in Afghanistan, women are not allowed out of their homes for any kind of work.

They are not allowed to leave their homes without a father, brother, or husband.

They are not allowed to interact with male shopkeepers.

They cannot be treated by a male doctor. Ironically there are no women doctors allowed to practise.

They may not study at schools, universities, or other educational institutions.

They have to wear the Burqa, long veil which covers them from head to toe.

If a woman dares to go out without her male relative or without her full cover, she will be whipped, beaten and verbally abused, in public. One woman was beaten to death because her ankles showed.

A number of lovers have been stoned to death for having sex outside their marriages.

No makeup is allowed. Several women have had their fingers cut off for wearing fingernail polish.

They are not allowed to talk to or shake the hands of any male who is not their relative. Nor are they allowed to laugh out loud.

All in the name of religion by the dominate gender.

And, lest you accuse me of spewing propoganda, please see the website of women in Pakistan who have lived to escape from such a hell and are working with men and women of the world to try to end the oppression and murders of thousands of women. They are at www.RAWA.org.

Of course women weren't powerless, in some cases. If you will get Barbara Walker's Encyclopedia of Women's Myths and Secrets you will find she cite her hundreds of sources for a lot of the herstory I am talking about. You might especially pay close attention to what happened to land-owning women when the early Church decided they had too much autonomy and power and stripped them of their lands, including abbesses.

kat