Well, jimmyt, maybe this is an odd little quirk of my own, but I've always thought that pride is pretty much an individual thing. I can be proud of myself for undertaking a task and exceeding my own expectations, or I can be proud of a friend for doing the same thing, or (going a bit beyond the simply personal) I can be proud of a group of individual people who accomplish something with panache. But you will note that this is feeling proud of those who actually participated in the accomplishment.

I take a really jaundiced view of those who claim pride for themselves or their particular group, nationality, or race because of the accomplishments of an individual or team of people who just happens to belong to that group, nationality, or race. It's like claiming credit for something that one has not personally earned. And when taken to extremes, it leads to such things as nationalism, racism, chauvinism, jingoism, and the kind of things that, in turn, can lead to. When someone announces that he or she feels pride because of the accomplishments of a member of a group they happen to belong to, my inclination is to ask, "Okay, but what have you done lately?"

Likewise, if some member of a group, nation, or race that I belong to does something shameful, I do not feel personal shame, because in those same circumstances I would not have acted that way. I am ashamed of them and what they have done and angry because of the disgrace they have brought onto the group to which I belong, but I don't feel personal shame. This impells me to try to do something to change the situation if I can. Further, if I were to commit a shameful act, there is no reason that any associate of mine should feel shame unless he or she supported and condoned my act.

I don't believe in collective pride or collective guilt. I have a right to claim the credit or bear the blame for what I do, but credit or blame for what others do is not mine to claim or bear.

Don Firth