Well argued, as ever Teribus.

Can I share part of an interview in last week's New Scientist withHussain Al-Shahristani, who was impisoned for refusing to work on nuclear weapons for Saddam. He spent 11 years in Abu Ghraib, was tortured himself but witnessed worse, including a man having his bones drilled with electric drills.
He said "The most painful thing in those torture chambers was to hear the screams of children being tortured to extract confessions from their fathers."
Keith.