Yes, one and the same: opaque logic. Sort of like my friend who related an incident: she was on a date, having dinner. Her companion, hoping to pay her a compliment, offers, "You know, you don't look 47." She was offended. She said, "What is wrong with 47?"

I get the same sort of vibe from you. Not purposely "thinking out of the box," because you don't know what a box is.