GUEST - Understand something. Many of the people you are agueing with are committed Democrats. Not liberals or political idealists but hard core Democrat partisans.

Talk about copy-and-past thinking from Bush-bashing hate sites. Some of the people you think you can change wrote them!

Nothing you say will change their minds. Nor will their discourse ever become truly civil.

Mark Clark is a fine person most of the time, but here is a statement from him after he voted in the Iowa caucuses:

   "At our local precinct caucus, Jan and I started out in the Kucinich group but the group was too small to be viable (less than 15% of total attendees) so, after some negotiation, the Kucinich group agreed to join the Edwards group on the promise that one of the delegates would be selected from among us. In our precinct, Kerry supporters got four delegates, Edwards three and Dean two. No other candidate's group was viable. My wife, Jan, is a delegate to the county convention (I've done it many times) and I was reelected as one of two members of the county central committee from our precinct."

Yes, Mark Clark is a Democrat Party Central Committee member and has been for years.

I am afraid the best they will do for you is point you toward more windmills.