Ya' know Shambles, the real issue on all of these threads that seem to be running now is once again the same one that was here 5 or 6 years ago and it is one of control. I've been through these sillyass wars umpteen times now and in the final analysis it still gets back to Max.

Poor Max. The young man has a valuable and fun website which all of us are only too happy to tell him how to run. When one of these things gets too bad and too over the top, he ends up stepping in and explaining what he'd like to see happen. Things then calm down til the next round. In all this time I have yet to see him take a stand to employ any more censorship than is absolutely the barest minimum. And he has chosen Joe and Jeff (who don't always agree) to keep it at a level he can live with. It's his choice. And through almost all of it Roger you have stated you too want no censorship. Gee, that sounds okay with Max to me.......he just also seems to know that some moderation is needed in the real world.

But then you do fight the need for the occasional clean-up and combining of threads as well as as the abusive ones since it strikes you as a slippery slope and you don't like the fact that Joe does it or Jeff does it and you don't. You refer once again to "Joe's own insults" and to be accurate, I must tell you that I have never seen one from him that amounts to a hill of beans or can actually be classed as an insult at all. And I know you will agree that I am the resident expert on insults so take my word for it, he hasn't broken the surface of the insult pond. And as to personal attacks............ah the hell with it. Typing this is a waste of time.

Joe and I have had plenty of fights and disagreements over the years but the man has a great heart and puts forth his best effort. If Max has a problem with Joe, he addresses Joe......not me, not you....Joe. You have been on this "chase" for several years and I credit you with high intelligence so I am amazed that you cannot seem to stop this harangue in the face of all evidence that it does no good for you or Mudcat to continue. If you are searching for this "utopian site" that you seem to be, this ain't it. It's damn good, but it will never satisfy you. Whatever your dream is, please go and create it. Don't leave here, you're still a member and that didn't work before for you. No, please stay, but can the diatribes. Then go out as well and set up a site that will encompass all you believe this place should and doesn't. You are free to do that and I would be very interested in the result.

I am around here so damn little anymore that I don't really know the latest group of players but I read the threads and see the same shit and a different day (or year) when it comes to telling Max what is wrong with Mudcat. If he hasn't gotten your message by now, don't you think it's probably a waste of time writing these voluminous postings in the hope that one day Max sees one and says, "By gawd Roger, that's brilliant! I never thought of that before!" Or, "You're right Shambles, Joe is an unmitigated asshole and I've been a fool all these years." ??????????

Feel free to continue writing Volume 97 in the saga, but if I were you, I think I'd invest my time in setting up my own perfection rather than trying to run someone elses.

Spaw