Interesting point, SueB. If the objective of the people you describe is spiritual growth, as I suspect it is, my guess is that there would be some limitatons inherent in that particular approach.

GUEST,Russ, do you not see the potential for expansion of thought inherent in your post? From my perspective, your post is breathtakingly expansive. Try running with those questions you've posed for a while and see where they take you.

GUEST,LDB, I don't know how one would differentiate between anger and pain. Everybody experiences things in their own unique way.

Wolfgang, here's the Bablefish translation of your song...

Oh that there thereafter still which beautiful is is troestlich in our situation. How well! and still the small - the large - nevertheless, there remains for us the question (we would know gladly still beside it!) Ob's sowas gives - we haettens gladly: - also v o r unserm death a life

(read verses from wolf Biermann's song it gives a life before death