Okay, GUEST, now we can talk.

You are a partisan representative of what you call "the progressive third party movement," which sounds suspiciously like a bunch of progressives not even organized enough to pick a single party in which to be progressive. Will this movement change the face of American politics? Perhaps, but not in 2004.

You see voting for Kerry as "not helping" this movement.

That's fine. More power to you.

Now on this forum, most leftists are NOT partisan members of "the progressive third party movement." We would like to see this country move to the left. That is our goal. We believe voting for Kerry will be instrumental in doing that.

You accuse US of being sycophantic followers of a particular leader. We are not. I don't love Kerry all that much, truth be told. But I have goals.

I recognize that you also have a goal. But YOU are the one caught up in "party politics" because YOUR goal is the one defined by parties. If the Republican Party moved to the left and the Democrats to the right, I'd probably be a Republican. I have no loyalty to a "party" per se. I have a loyalty to my goals, many of which in 2004 are achievable via a party. None of them are achievable by voting for Cobb.

Now, when you start to say things like:

I'm not saying voting for Kerry is like voting for Hitler. I'm saying a vote for Kerry is a vote for Bush, and a vote for either, is like blindfolding yourself in the same way the Germans did when they voted for Hitler.

You reveal the vacuity of your own position and your OWN tendency to twist words. "I'm not saying voting for Kerry is like voting for Hitler. I'm just saying that it's like voting for Hitler in this particular way!"

That dog won't hunt, GUEST! YOU let that particular genii out of the bottle. YOU invoked Hitler and accused of of being just like the people who voted for Hitler. That is, in political arguments, a "race to the bottom."

You also said:

"You are cynical, jaded, worn down, and resigned to accept whatever shit the Democratic party heaps onto your plate.

Best of luck bickering over the flatware you will eat it with."

Where I come from, that looks remarkably like "You're voting Democrat? eat shit, asshole."

My apologies if I misinterpreted it, but deep down I think you know I didn't.