Obie and others...this to my knowledge was not a Catholic tradition that the Nazis stole and made forever evil. It is something imposed on us sheep-like Catholics post-Nazi era. That is what makes it so sickening to me. If there were a long tradition, and maybe there was that I am unaware of, of using that pose, and they wanted to reclaim it I could understand. But not imposing it on us with all its connotations. mg