And to add a little more! This is always a DANGEROUS thread topic, yet I well respect Mary for daring to express it. If we are all not very careful, this could slide down into the bottomless pit of a religiosity/flaming/damnyou/damnme/the hellwith it/stupid war. But that's not where I want to go. And I strongly suspect that that is NOT where Mary wants to go.

I know Mary, a bit. She is seriously Catholic. She and I have talked of her religious beliefs. And, she is a grown up person with a very good head on her shoulders, who also is able to compose incredible songs.

So, for her to ask a question, as she has, on a internet thread, means that she's wanting serious answers. I can't help her. I'm far too much a cynic. I was raised in the Pentacostal church and grew up with the serious downside of religion every day.

I also have a memory and I'm old enough to remember the hitler salute as it happened in real life. Yes, I know that the swatstika was well known in American Indian cultures. But, Mary has asked a serious question here. Bob