The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #73733   Message #1282776
Posted By: Joe Offer
27-Sep-04 - 11:12 PM
Thread Name: BS: Nazi salute in church
Subject: RE: BS: Nazi salute in church
Yes, it's a serious question.

Mary's right - no matter how ancient the gesture is, it looks quite a bit like a Hitler salute. If that similarity pushes one of her "hot buttons," it will probably always be hard for her to accept that symbol for the meaning of blessing that it has had for many centuries. I think that's true for most of us - a symbol takes on the meaning we first associate with it, and it's almost impossible to shake that meaning. I guess when that happens, we have to make a choice. I think the most sensible choice is for me to acknowledge that although the symbol has negative implications for me, it obviously has a deep, positive meaning for many people. The people who use the symbol have no reason whatsoever to express its negative implications, so it's only logical that the negative things are not their intention.

I think we need to accept people for what's in their hearts, and not find fault with them because they choose words or gestures that we dislike. The basic question is this: are the people in church praising Hitler, or are they asking God to bless somebody? If it's the latter, it's not fair to condemn them as Nazis.

If we have to be so careful about confusing symbols, we'd better go back to calling sauerkraut "liberty cabbage" and French fries "liberty fries." I guess we'd better burn all the American flags, because Richard Nixon hid behind his flag lapel pin. If we take this to extremes, we paralyze ourselves, because everything we could possibly say and do must have some sort of negative implication for somebody.

So, Mary, it's your choice. I think we've given you a definitive answer. It's an authentic, ancient symbol of blessing that has been used since the days of the Jewish patriarchs. It has been used throughout the history of the Catholic Church, although it was used mostly by priests from the Late Middle Ages until the Second Vatican Council in the 1960's. It has come into use again as a restoration of an ancient tradition. Those are the facts. I have a Theology degree and I've worked with Catholic liturgy since the 1960's, so I think I can speak with reasonable authority - priests often ask me questions about liturgy, because it's a subject I know very well.

Yes, it kind of looks like a Nazi salute, and it's clear that it has that meaning for you and you probably will never be able to shake that implication from your mind. The people who instituted the practice centuries ago and those who reinstituted it in recent years, have no reason on earth to praise Hitler - all they want is a sign that conveys blessing, and it's a very effective sign for most people. You cannot compel them to stop using the symbol because it just does not have Nazi implications for them - there's no way that they're going to see things your way on this issue. So, I guess the best thing to do is to live with it.

-Joe Offer-