Foolestroup,

My apologies -- maybe!

I'd be more than willing to admit I was wrong, but I still have an inkling that your Discovery News source was dramatizing, if not fabricating, some of her presentation. For example, here's the fourth paragraph of her article:

"Baron Pierre de Coubertain of France originally designed the rings in 1913. De Coubertain was the founder of the International Olympic Committee. He created the rings to symbolize the first five Olympic games."

Then she mentions that de Coubertain's plan for introducing the rings at one particular event in 1913 was postponed, and we're suddenly back in 1936, being told about how Leni W. helped Hitler to make the most of all this high-toned Olympic symbolism.

She never comes out and states that the rings and the flag remained dormant and secret for 23 years, and I'm not so sure that they did.

No one will dispute the point that Hitler and the Nazis played a big role in giving new and heightened meaning to the various Olympic symbols and rituals, and that they were absolute masters of inventing and promoting their own symbology and secular "liturgy." But did they originate ALL the best-known Olympic trappings? I still doubt it.

But then again, maybe I'm all wrong, having been successfully duped by the Nazis into believing that most of the Olympic claptrap predates 1936.

And, of course, you and I were and are in basic agreement on the *main* point, which is that whether or not the Nazis appropriated that blessing/salute gesture, people can raise their arms in church without expressing an endorsement of fascism and genocide!

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Oh yeah, one other thing -- Joe Offer's post was right on the mark. For the record, I'm a mildly disenchanted "fallen-away" Catholic -- although I prefer the expression "gotten-away" -- who does not hold a grudge against the Church, but just can't accept its authority.