good points that are very easy to overlook. Some camps are much better than this than others....really slippery muddy camps are probably not great for people with certain mobility needs...haldn't though about the big song circles...they are so traditional here at least the first night...no doubt about it, the best music is when people jump in..the flip side of that is that it is not at all democratic...probably the best thing is to have a big group thing and then split if necessary or the blue books are winning. mg