I see from some of the comments that some of the established mudcatters are sick of this discusion / argument At the start of the thread I stated that I hadnot looked to see if there where any threads and that a lot of new people had signed on recently. In my humble opinion by the very nature of mudcat things will reappear constantly as the global cafe grows and events take place. I am sure things that have been discussed time and time again will reappear therefore i think a good word is TOLERANCE Keith