Guest,

Bush is different.   Encroachiing fascism is something that many have a hard time getting their head around.

I don't share your view of Democrat's hysteria. I see the Democrats as a party of hope and optimism. "Hope is on the way".

Progressives for Kerry are nothing to be afraid of. Being frightened and fearful is what the Republicans want for us. Kerry offers a different view.
He has been criticized for being restrained in his anger. I consider this a plus for any President. He is not frothing at the mouth in frustration but calm and measured in his approach. He is for building consensus and community and not muckraking or taking a negative bashing position.

Demonizing is a political ploy. But it is fair to criticize a world view that is based on rigid, authoritarian, selfish and violent policies.

I think you are mistaken when you assume that I am vilifying Nader, Bush or anyone else. I am referring to their world view and their policies that result from them. I don't think it's constructive to take a victim stance which many on the fringe of the Left are prone to do.

Nader is an obstructionist. It really doesn't matter if he is taken Republican money or not. I have no cognitive dissonance regarding Nader. Many of his policies are good. But his action in this time of encroaching fascism in our country is reprehensible.

Kerry is not perfect but he's not a religious fanatic or a world dominating
hegemonic fascist. He is a militarist which bothers me a great deal but I believe that what I know of him, he will be sensitive to the world community and not promote military solutions in lieu of sensible policy decisions.

I'm not at all worried that Kerry will turn out to be like Bush. I have never said that Nader said that.

You say, " But that doesn't stop you from engaging in this arrogant, patronizing bull shit game of demonizing Nader."

I'm not the one doing the demonizing. I have stated that I believe that some of Nader's policies are valid. The bull shit as you have decided to call it is not coming from this quarter. To dismiss my view as bull shit doesn't give any weight for support to Nader. It reinforces the anger and the passion which is not a bad thing in itself but is misguided at a time when the Bush Administration has elected a policy of world domination through building military bases in the Middle East and embarking on a Holy Crusade against the Muslim world.

I have noticed that those who ascribe shortcomings such as close-mindedness, arrogance and other vituperative statements to others generally are used as a smoke screen to deny those aspects in themselves.
Karl Rove has used this technique effectively.

I don't consider Nader an enemy. I think it is however unfortunate what he is doing and no amount of anger or ad-hominem arguments can change my mind or any other person's mind. I don't deny that Jesse has some intelligence. My comment is not on the man but the image that he conveyed which made him electable. Arnold, the same way.

I don't believe Kerry is perfect but Ralph is not presidential at this point because he doesn't grasp the reality of another Bush four years. As a matter of fact, I am of the impression that Ralph would welcome it in order to shake the country up believing that the public would rise up against Bush and support him. I think that's a pipe dream.

I don't agree that all Democrats have caved in to special interests or to the Bush view. There are plenty of feisty Dems out there such as Rep. Barney Franks, John Lewis of Georgia, Barak Obama of Illinois and others who will keep Kerry's feet to the fire if need be.

As to the abuse of Dems to Naderites, I can't comment because this has not been my experience. There is however a sense of urgency in that Nader has taken votes away from Kerry which portends a Bush re-election.

I personally think it's reprehensible for anyone to pull up signs, threaten or harass anyone for political gain. I do feel, though, it's all right to state what I think is appropriate about any political candidate based on my views. As an American, I cherish that right. Again, to be told that I am full of shit weakens the argument from anyone who uses that type of intimidation. I suspect a Karl Rove approach is operative here.

I came out one morning to find one of my Kerry/Edwards lawn signs crumpled in the neighbor's garbage. Was it a Bush supporter or a Naderite? Don't know. Chances are that it wasn't a Democrat. So my experience has been different from yours.

I believe that it's important for Progressives not to assume a position of victims and keep reaffirming the positive values that have helped us in the past, that of community, fair play for all, tolerance, economic fairness, helping those who need it through government programs, paying taxes as dues for living in a civilized society, protecting Social Security for our elderly, and being judicious in foreign policy and not go off half-cocked with a crazy Reactionary anger. This would apply to Naderites as well as Bushies.

Frank












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