Murray,

Don't know if you're still interested in this, but I was away on vacation when the original postings were done and I do have a bit of an interest in Mance — if you noticed last week I was asking people's opinion on whether/how to go about producing some albums from some live recordings I have of him.

I've heard Mance was "discovered" by Arhoolie's Chris Strachwitz in 1960, so I don't know what happened in the interim, but I first heard Mance at a coffee house (Sword and Stone) in Oklahoma City on May 5, 1966 and he told me that night that he didn't have any records. When I asked why not, he said he had had a hard time getting social security because the family Bible had been lost in a fire and he couldn't prove his age. He finally did get it, but somebody told him that if he made records and made a lot of money for a short time, the government would cut him off and then he'd have to go through the whole process again.

I thought somebody should be able to hear him, so I asked if I could take a tape recorder to the club the next night and tape the show. He agreed and I got nearly three hours of pretty great stuff.

A few months later I was back in NC, talking to my brother-in-law and playing a little music. I told him about Mance and said it was a real shame he wouldn't make records.

Richard (the B-i-L) worked for Social Security and one of his sideline jobs for them was to produce 15-minute spots of folk music, to be run as public service on radio stations, with info about the SS interspersed with the songs.

Richard said he thought Mance sounded like a prime example of the kind of performers he was looking for, so I told him where Mance lived (which I now don't recall except that it was in central Texas) and he looked up which field office he would deal with.

Richard called and found out who his field rep was and authorized him to talk Mance into going into a studio and cutting some discs for SS. I'm not sure if he ever did, but Richard told the field rep to assure Mance that commercial recording would not jeopardize his SS status and I think ML did some recordings after that.

BTW — The story I heard of how Mance got to the Sword and Stone was that some people who hung around there were driving to the Texas gulf on a holiday and found him playing on the porch of a crossroads store. They listened until he packed up and left, then drove south for a week or so. On their way back to Oklahoma City they stopped at the same store and were told Mance had been jailed for vagrancy. They went back to OKC and told the crowd at the S&S, who took up a collection, and then drove back to Texas to bail him out. Apparently ML was so grateful that any time the S&S wanted him to play he would get on a bus and ride about 12 hours to get there for a gig.

Now, for a disclaimer of sorts. Apart from the dates I first heard him and I recorded him, a lot of this is hearsay filtered through 33 years of imploding grey cells and Richard's part in it is only what he told me. I do know Mance told me in 1966 that he had no records out, so I don't know what was happening or not happening with Arhoolie at that time.

There's somebody else on the Mudcat who might be able to fill in a lot of blanks. Banjoman hung around the S&S and was there long before and long I was in that scene. He knew Mance much better than I did (those two nights were the only times I met him) and would know more about the "discovery" story than I do.

I know you're out there, Banjoman, so wade in and tell us what y ou know.....

david