My leanings in this are well known. My family were all nationalists, and that is how I have been raised with regard to the land of my grandparents. Unlike some in the country of my birth, I have always tried to get to the real meat of this issue. Mudcat, for me, has been instrumental in dispelling some of the "Plastic Pat" baggage that many Yanks have. Of late I have tried to simply listen in these debates, as I feel that this is best left to those that are living it. I am going to depart from that for a moment and offer some observations of this discussion.

First off to Belfast, N. Ireland. Whether by intent or accident, your thread title and initial post are a troll. They clearly show your bias. Any reasonable person knows full well that the Republicans were not Nazi's or sympathizers. It was the same set of circumstances that existed in 1798 with the French. The enemy of their oppressor offered assistance. The Irish Gaels have never given in to the English and their desire to eliminate their culture. Over the centuries they have made many alliances in an attempt to rid Ireland of their presence. This is because Great Britain had overwhelming resources to bring to bear.

Your comment about the people of the North seems legitimate. Catholics and Protestants seem to have adopted the desire to resolve this issue politically. In response to this, the IRA and SF have held a cease fire in the face of unending provocation. No matter how you try to couch it, it is the loyalist/unionist factions that try to torpedo the process. They, in their minds, have the most to lose. If that is not the case, then give us some facts. And don't try to shift the argument to something that happened 60 or 70 years ago.

The issue of the Catholic Church's influence in the South is legitimate, and the folks in the Republic have been addressing that in recent years. Having said that, the Republic has a history of being very tolerant of other religions. Hell, the Lord Mayor of Dublin was a Jewish man. It is about being Irish, and that is the nub of it. Where one says their prayers is less important than whether they see themselves as Irish or not.

BTW, the comment about accepting a United Ireland at the expense of the Jews was a ridiculous analogy. The status of the European Jewry was not an issue to the Nationalists. Most people in Europe, at the time of these approaches, had no idea what was happening to them. I would be surprised if even one Republican would accept a United Ireland in return for the lives of 6 million people. Whoever it was that suggested this in the above post is a shameless fool.

And it is always those that had the unfair advantage that want to paint the aggrieved peoples as "self pitying" when they have had enough of injustice. You are just afraid that these folks might treat you like they have been treated.

Mick