Thanks Bill for eventually addressing the issue. But I note you have carefully avoided the rather crucial issue of the example set of volunteers mounting and inciting personal attacks upom other posters or how those who are seen to have chosen to indulge in this can remain to have any credibilty.

Again this is the 'spin' you accept and wish everyone to accept. I am pointing out the reality of this 'spin' and asking for this reality to be addressed - before it is blindly defended.

You state - But especially he hates not having a list of volunteers posted and seems to want anyone who does edit anything sign it. Jeff & Joe have noted several times that they do not WANT elves to get into personal debates, but have also said that important deletions must be cleared with them!!!!!! So, if I understand it right, ALL serious deletions or thread closings MUST be approved by either Joe or Jeff....or Max, if it comes to that.

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Subject: RE: BS: This Thread Is Closed!
From: GUEST,The Shambles - PM
Date: 26 Jan 05 - 07:47 PM

I question whether 'we' have routinely deleted anything. Joe Offer may well have decided to. I suspect also that that Joe's routine deletions and judgement can only increase.

Joe if YOU don't like what the public place on this discussion forum - after they have been invited by Max to do so - and without any rules being set by him - can YOU please leave the rest of us (who do like the forum) - alone?


[Editing comment in brown] Actually, "I" didn't delete the thread in question. Somebody else did, and I approved the deletion. When I'm speaking, "I" means Joe Offer. "We" means that somebody else did it, and I agreed; or it was a joint action or decision.
-Joe Offer-

[Editing comment in green] That's right. I deleted the thread using the general guidelines. When a thread starts out as an attack, there is not much chance of it being civil. Joe is but one of us, and he is the senior admin person. His if generally the last word, but there are several of us that serve this function. There was another thread I asked Joe to review. I felt like it should be closed, but I had participated in it. Hence I felt as though someone else should make the decision. Mudelf

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Bill is it not clear from the evidence here - that in this case - the 'serious deletions or thread closings WERE NOT be approved by either Joe or Jeff....or Max, if it comes to that'?

Should not any imposed judgement and editing action taken against any poster's wishes or knowledge be thought to be 'serious'?