The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #79457   Message #1441257
Posted By: Little Hawk
22-Mar-05 - 11:25 PM
Thread Name: BS: Libs- Beware of......
Subject: RE: BS: Libs- Beware of......
I empathize with your wishes for mutual tolerance, susu.

Puzzled by a couple of your comments, though...

How do you figure that England, Ireland, and Scotland are not democratic societies? Have you discussed that with any UK citizens?

Just what IS a democratic society, in your opinion?

And what is "freedom"? Is it one simple thing...or is it many things?

Most people who fight a war are consciously fighting for the freedom to run the agenda in a certain way that their country is in favour of, aren't they? (at the cost of someone else's freedom to run it differently!)

Just because your leaders TELL you that they are fighting for "freedom" doesn't necessarily mean it's 100% true. :-) What they are usually really fighting for is money, resources, and control of money and resources. They want to be FREE to do it their way... :-)

I also strive to love and understand all people, and I do appreciate that people on the other side of any political debate are normally standing up for what they consider to be good human values. That's always been the case just about everywhere you could care to mention. An army that simply does not believe in its own values is an army that will quickly collapse, EVEN if it's armed in a way totally equivalent to its opponents.

A badly out-classed army on the other hand (like that of Poland in '39 or Iraq in 2003) will quickly collapse regardless of whether or not they believe in their own side's values...in which case they will lose the freedom to run their agenda in the way they see fit.

No society has perfect freedom. Some have more freedom, some have less. Every society is a compromise between total freedom (which is not feasible) and total control (which is not feasible either). I have found Canada to be a bit freer in some respects than the USA, although they are both reasonably free, in the modern sense. I suspect they are both less free than some other places...in some respects...and more free, in others.

For a society to claim that it is fighting carte blanche for "freedom" is often just grand rhetoric used to camouflage and legitimize moves of aggressive self-interest. Most wars are fought for ownership and control, not for freedom.