The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #79712   Message #1450943
Posted By: Nerd
03-Apr-05 - 02:37 PM
Thread Name: BS: Ten Commandments on Public Property?
Subject: RE: BS: Ten Commandments on Public Property?
Sorry, Father John

It may be absolute and utter nonsense, but it has generally been the Supreme Court's understanding that there is a separation of Church and State. Just because you say "period" does not make you an authority. Most people who ARE authorities believe that there IS a constitutional separation of Church and State.

You also make some howlers. In excoriating people for not reading our government documents, you make it obvious that you have not read them yourself. To wit:

"The US Bill of Rights, the first ten articles of the Constitution, is a listing of the rights of all people granted by their Creator"


You just made this up. It's nowhere in the Bill of Rights. Nor is the bill of rights intended to express "the rights of all people," since

1) it pertains only to the Constitution of the United States, and therefore to Americans

2) it somehow did not pertain to Black people for many years.

Also, The US Bill of Rights is NOT the first ten "Articles" of the Constitution. The Constitution has seven articles, each of which is broken down into several sections. It is followed by ten "amendments," so called in the document itself--although they are also called

"ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution."

So at best one could consider them articles 5B through 5K.

The statement that rights are endowed to all people by a creator comes from the Declaration of Independence. (Remember that one, Father?) The rights in question are simply "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Those are the ONLY rights specifically said to be endowed by a creator.

Two things mitigate this in terms of its effect on the US law.

1) The reference to a creator was not in Jefferson's original draft, nor in the draft prepared later by John Adams. It is, in fact, something of a historical mystery how the word "creator" got into the declaration, but it IS in the version copied out by Jefferson and signed by the states. Probably someone on the "Committee of five" felt it would be easier to get the whole group to agree if the word was in there. So its status in terms of the intentions of the "founding fathers" is in serious question.

2) (More importantly) The Declaration of Independence, interestingly, is not a law. It predates both the constitution and the United States itself. The Supreme Court has repeatedly found that no legal decision may turn primarily on the Declaration of Independence. No legal decision by the court has ever been made on the authority of the Declaration.

What this means is that

1) The Declaration may be used as a general guide to understanding the intentions of the Constitution, but law comes from the Constitution, not the Declaration.

But

2) The idea of the "creator," because it is a late and poorly-understood addition to the Declaration, does not add much to our understanding of the intentions of the constitution.