The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #80275   Message #1462332
Posted By: wysiwyg
15-Apr-05 - 02:28 PM
Thread Name: BS: religious fundamentalists and women
Subject: RE: BS: religious fundamentalists and women
I didn;t make it up, really; it came up in dialog with a paghan correspoindent.

Here's more:

From http://www.catalystpoint.org/castings/2003/06/04

Personal Counterpoint, June 4, 2003
Some friends and I were having a discussion on the subject of a Wiccan book. I'm choosing not to name the title and author because I don't want to distract from the main point of this article, but the book contained some very disturbing things passed off as Wiccan Tenets-- sexual practices that are fine when they're consensual, but deeply disturbing when they become mandatory, and outrageous when they are applied to children. It's a sad fact that these people are out there. There's something to be said for the discussion of their flaws, but this will not make them stop talking, nor will it make others stop listening.

Every time the subject of my being Pagan comes up, I always watch the person I'm talking to with a dread that I'm going to see "that look" on their faces. The one that says, "Oh, God, not another one." We've progressed beyond the point where I worry about people thinking I worship Satan, but now I have to worry that they think I'm a complete loser. Lately, most people I encounter have heard of Paganism in a modern context, but too many of those have encountered some of the less mature members of our community.

When I see that look, I tell the person, "Look. I know there are some Pagans out there that are nuts. It's okay-- you can say it. I like them less than you do. To you, they're weird and harmless. To me, they're a disgrace."

Every minority and religion has bad examples.... [see site for more]

It's so very PC not to bring it up, but that won't help. There's certainly wisdom in not giving them more attention than they deserve, but to ignore them accomplishes nothing. You can't say "We're not really like that" to someone who has seen those of us that are really like that. You can't make these people stop existing.

The real danger, though, isn't the effect that these people have on the public perception of Paganism. It's the effect that they have on our internal perceptions, and the things we do in response to them. I have to watch myself that I don't become too much of a "Fundamentalist Pagan." The truth is that I have no more right than anyone else in the world to say that this is Paganism and this is not.

All I can do is present my views in a reasonable manner.... [see site for more]

© 2003 by Cather "Catalyst" Steincamp


From http://www.cauldronfarm.com/writing/fundementalist.html

On Being A Neo-Pagan Fundamentalist
Yes. I am most certainly a Neo-Pagan Fundamentalist.

Before everyone screams and runs away, please allow me to define what that means. So far, in modern Pagan writings, no one else has used this term except as a joke, so I'm going to to define it now once and for all, quite seriously. I am not defining this term by way of, or in comparison of, any Christian or Jewish or Muslim fundamentalism. Being a Pagan fundamentalist is very much its own thing. That being said, here are the absolute fundamental tenets of this brand of Pagan faith. You may or may not practice these; you may or may not agree with them; but I'm much more interested that you simply understand them. [goes on to list a number of points]

This is the starting point of this attitude. It's not that of the majority of Pagans, and given point number 5, it likely never will be. However, those of us who are on this path are the small minority of diehards for whom this is the way we do things. You can be a Pagan fundamentalist and be a Wiccan, an Egyptian Pagan, a Druid, or whatever else; there are traditions which are specifically inimical to some of the above tenets and don't mix well with it, but most well. There does seem to be a lot of us in reconstructionist traditions, and a reconstructionist bent to many who aren't specifically doing that, but there are also many eclectics in the demographic.

So there it is. Pass it on. The only way a definition gets defined is if it gets heard. And if this makes you uncomfortable, good. Sometimes it's been when I was most uncomfortable, and forced myself to look at the source of that discomfort, that I learned the most about myself.

Raven Kaldera