I think you are still trying make me responsible for the behavior of others, Joe. And I don't accept that my behavior here is what is causing your headaches. It certanly isn't what caused the headache of yours known as "Martin Gibson". I ignored him for a very long time, but his bullying didn't stop. "Martin Gibson" stated many times that his entire reason for being here was to break the rules of the Mudcat. This he did quite successfully, without any help from me.

The reason ignoring trolls is the best way to deal with them is because ignoring them deprives them of any reinforcement of the behavior. Trolls are out to get an emotional response from their targets. If the target does not respond emotionally, the troll will lose interest (eventually).

But with bullies, the reinforcements are not the same as with trolls. In the case of "Martin Gibson", the reinforcement came from the behind-the-scenes subculture that he had created, in which he would get virtual "high-fives" for getting in a good one at someone else' expense. And bullies even get reinforcement from being ignored, because they take a non-response as a sign of their victory over the person they are bullying.

In my case, as long as I ignored "Martin's" abuse, it continued and even got worse. At first, I took him to be someone who needed to be "won over" (rather than as a troll), so I tried to respond with kindness to his abuse whenever possible. This didn't produce any results. After a while, I decided that he was a troll, and I didn't respond to his abuse. This didn't work because he was not a troll.

Eventually, after seeing the kinds of things he was saying to people like Art Theime, Wesley S, and Don Firth, I decided to try an experiment. I decided to stand up to him. The thing that tells me I was right about him being a bully and not a troll is that standing up to him did work. Once I started doing that, his attacks on me lessened and I was able to get him to leave me alone.

I agree that there are ways to stand up to a bully like that that are counterproductive. For instance, I think the many "Martin" bashing threads were counterproductive. I did not participate in those. I also think the threads that were for the purpose of trolling for "Martin" were counterproductve. I did not participate in those. And trolling for "Martin" within other kinds of threads was counterproductive. I did not do that. I only responded to his attacks on me (and a few times his attacks on others), and I did it in such a way as to take the fun out of what he was doing, rather than give him satisfaction. And it worked.

I will continue to try to avoid feeding trolls (as I have been doing). This is sometimes made difficult by the fact that it is not always easy to determine whether or not a person is trolling. Clinton, for instance, in this thread. Sometimes I test people a few times as a way of finding out if they are trolling. And if I find that they are, I ignore them (sometimes after saying one or two things that have the effect of neutralizing their attack). And after I do that, they leave me alone.

But telling me (or anyone else) that I must take whatever bullies dish out, even though what they are doing is against the policies of the Mudcat, and not doing anything yourself to enforce the rules against the bullies, is, to be frank, very unfair, and not workable. Whether or not I ever post another thing in the Mudcat, you will still have just as many headaches as you have had lately as long as this kind of double standard is being applied.

I also know that I have repeatedly asked you not to fight, and you have continued to do so.

You have not repeatedly asked me not to fight.

Exactly what is it you want me to apologize for?

I wanted you to apologise for mischaracterizing my behavior. I think you are still mischaracterizing my behavior, but I note that you have implied some kind of apology in there somewhere, and to the extent that you have done that, I accept it.


and CarolC is rapidly losing the respect and credibility she may have thought she at some point had.

This point is completely lost on me Peanut, because I never expected that I had any to begin with.