No - I mean the forum that Max provided for our open discussion on his website.


Shambles proposes that any time a thread title is altered in any way, the thread originator should be contacted in advance for permission. He contends that any alteration of a thread title is censorship, and should not be done without the express permission of the thread originator. To do less is to show disrespect to the freedom of speech of the thread originator.

Yes – and if it were me that was doing the imposition upon your contributions and defending them in the manner evidenced here – you perhaps (and others) may also feel that I was imposing a negative effect on our forum and try to address it?

The volunteers and I contend that we do respect the freedom of speech of our fellow Mudcatters because we do not touch the content or titles of the messages posted except in very rare and restricted circumstances. We contend that the Forum Menu and thread titles are merely an index, not a free-speech expression; and that thread titles are a service to the community and should clearly identify the contents of a thread and differentiate that thread from other threads. As such, thread titles are not and should not be under control of the thread originator.

It is obvious to anyone reading just the thread titles (especially in the non-music section) that these titles are now are very much part of our forum's free speech expression. There is no attempt here at making the thread's originator any more in control of the thread - than making it under the control of our volunteers. Just simply to ensure that the originator's words appear as posted – unless they agree to any change.

In addition to our policy of leaving the contents of messages unaltered in most circumstances, we do show respect for the concerns expressed by Shambles because we attempt to rename threads by adding to them, leaving the core of the thread title intact. If there is a possibility that the thread originator may have trouble finding the thread later, we DO contact the originator when possible and give notice of the new name of the thread.

This is like having a car park that you have used for many years. One day you return to find that not only has your car been moved – without your knowledge or permission but that those in charge have decided to re-spay it the colour of their choice. It is showing proper respect - to ask first. Volunteers can add to the titles mainly because they have more characters available to them and can make longer thread titles than ordinary posters can. It would seem sensible (but not seemingly to our volunteers) for all posters to be given the increased characters available to our volunteers.

We contend that advance notification of thread name changes is unnecessary and impractical. Most threads have most of their traffic in their first half-day of life - so if a name change is needed, it should be done as soon as possible, to help Mudcatters know right away what's inside that thread. In addition, it would indeed be cumbersome for multiple volunteers to develop a system for contacting thread originators for permission and waiting for a response, and then remembering to make the change once permission is granted. What if more than one volunteer gets the idea the thread title should be changed? Do we have to have a staff meeting to decide responsibility for each title change?

Perhaps our volunteers showing some kind of consistent approach – other than just supporting whatever silliness may have been imposed - would be an improvement an the current free-for-all. There is no rush (unless it is to see which volunteer can pounce first). If something is worth doing - it is worth doing properly and without the risk of upsetting anyone.

We also have a regular practice of contacting members by personal message and e-mail when they have trouble logging in, and we ask them to respond to make sure everything is working properly for them. Adding a requirement for contact and waiting for response on thread title changes would add effort and confusion to this already-heavy burden.

If any volunteer feels that doing it properly is placing a too-heavy burden upon them – they are always welcome to un-volunteer. I am quite sure our forum would continue without them and their imposition – as indeed we have for many years.

In general, our thread naming practices are quite innocuous, and consist of adding song titles and songwriter names to threads about songs, adding the date of death to obituaries, adding locations to gig threads, changing ALLCAPS to Title Case, removing inconsistent spellings or unusual characters that can impede searches, and other mundane matters. The logical time for a volunteer to make a thread title change is when he or she is reading the thread - not a day or two later, after the need and the idea have passed. We try to be consistent in our methods of titling thread so that people will have an easier time searching. In our experience, it appears that very few people - perhaps only one - have any complaint about the vast majority of our thread title changes.

Your thread naming practices may be generally thought innocuous but they can be saved for the creation of your own threads and thread titles – not for imposing them upon the titles of others without their knowledge or permission. When this imposition is not so general or so innocuous – it does little credit to anyone to pretend they are.

Athough we do not have a system for advance approval by thread originators of thread title changes, there's nothing to stop anybody from complaining about any change we make. Just send me a personal message. You may not like my answer - but then you're free to appeal to Max.

Perhaps we should? It must be far better for all concerned to show up-front - that fair and equal treatment to all posters is the norm and that every aspect of our forum is seen to be open to public debate? Perhaps those who do not think this are the ones who should find or start another site where they could impose as many rules as they wished?