Roger - This 'problem' is not resolvable because you're on the other side of it! Beneath your facade of 'reasonable debate', you will never accept anything other than complete & utter capitulation to your point of view.

There is nothing like setting your expectations high - that does not mean that you may not be prepared to be realistic and settle for a little bit less. But the factor you are missing is when the other side is being totally unrealistic and not prepared to move at all - and more damagingly - prepared to watch the whole edifice they claim to be protecting - be torn apart by encouraging the resulting divisions.

Joe's wish now to 'index', 'consolidate' 'prefix', 'clarify' and generally try to control the postings of others - can be undertaken without the need for him to claim that thread titles are for him to impose changes on - as and when he wishes to. Or try and obtain general approval for his wish to do this.

I don't consider that Joe's clear wish to impose his personal judgement upon the contributions of his fellow posters - in order to 'clarify' - to be more important than the wishes of posters to have their words - as posted. They may of course agree to any proposed changes - if asked?

I also don't accept that presenting Joe and his fellow volunteers with the requirement to first ask posters before they impose any changes upon their fellow posters is too 'cumbersome' nor that avoiding inconvenience to our (anonymous) volunteers should now be thought to be the prime consideration of our forum.

These will remain my views and if I really need to - in order to inform posters of the reality of what lies behind the 'spin' and to try and return to the friendly and tolerant spirit and equal treatment to all posters that used to be taken for granted on our forum - I will continue to express and evidence this. Using moderate language and without mounting any abusive persaonal attacks. Posters can completely ignore this - if they wish to.

But it seems to be a lot more fun to follow the poor example now being set by our volunteers and their supporters and to post only to make personal judgements of fellow posters.....Sadly with all of this - it is going to take a lot of effort to put the genie back in the bottle - but I still think that it is worth the effort to try.

Any help will be much appreciated.