"for many of us, this is not about winning arguments. It is about trying to save our country and our society"

Yes, Carol, I understand that. I know you are truly concerned about the issues being discussed. What concerns me is people's tendency to break up and seriously damage their sometimes lengthy friendships with other people as a consequence of debating and discussing current issues. Why does that happen? Too much pride? Too much self-righteousness? Too thin a skin? Too much hurt? Too much need to be "right" (and therefore better than the other person)? I think it's sad and unnecessary that that happens, and I would prefer that it didn't. It must be possible to debate strenuously about things and to disagree, without permanently damaging one's relations with other people. I have known any number of cases where people on this forum decided that someone else "wasn't worth talking to" after some disagreement they had about politics, society, or whatever. They then either ostracize the other person totally or they attack them repeatedly on the forum with contempt, sarcasm, accusation, ridicule, and various other forms of thinly disguised hatred. That's what happens when people's emotions get so wrapped up in defending their rhetorical position that it poisons the dialogue.

That's what I am advising against. It's not a healthy form of behaviour.

If people simply cannot forgive other people's obvious lack of perfection, how the hell are they ever going to come to terms with their own lack of perfection? And that applies to the political arena too, by the way! Big time. Wars happen because a lot of people are incapable of accomodation or forgiveness. Same goes for suicide bombings.

Kirsten's original post that set off this whole thread was a spectacular example of a mind that does not for a moment entertain the notion of forgiveness. Such a mind prefers to divide Life into "the good and the evil" and seek out final and bitter retribution upon the "evil" (those being, whoever the "good" don't happen to agree with about something at any given time).

It's a vicious mentality. It may identify with underdogs...or overlords...but it's vicious in either case.