The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #16543   Message #156845
Posted By: InOBU
01-Jan-00 - 11:10 PM
Thread Name: Bobby Sands
Subject: RE: Bobby Sands
Dear Richard:
I did not mean the comment about legal research as an insult at all, but rather was enguaging in a bit of self deprivation at the fact that I will always spell as I did as a boat builder and coal miners son, no matter how many years I spend getting letters added to my name, and missunderstanding your comment - believing you meant to hot link to a cite with US court opinions. In fact, I am sure it is as costly in England as here to do on-line legal reasearch, and because of that, American law schools are doing everything possible to produce law students who become lawyers addicted to on-line research on Westlaw or Lexis.
I will, as I seem not to be making to point adiquately, provide you with the cites in Doherty and some of the earlier extradition cases. The point I am attempting to make is that extradition, before the removal of the Politcal Exemption clause, was a fact driven process. And, Doherty WAS argued in the time before that exemption was removed. Therefore, in all the Doherty extradition cases - the initial hearing and the appeals by the US government, on behest of the crown, the aligations that the IRA enguaged in terrorism were weighed in detail, with England having every opportunity to present experts on terrorism and the history of the conflict in Ireland to prove to Americna courts that the IRA was involved in terrorism. In that battle of history and experts, England lost. The jiggery pokery came as a method around that loss. To give more detail, as you may know, many of the leading US rocket scientists were Nazi war criminals. A law was quietly passed to assure that if they were to be deported, they would not be able to choose to go to Russia. That law was never used until the Doherty case was lost by the US executive branch of government. As such, the then secritary of state, Meese, provided an affidavit to the court, saying that it was in the US national interest to send Joe back to England, nothing else was stated, including what the national interest was. That is what the supreme court case was about, can a non spesific claim of national interest justify the sending of an individual to a country where US courts have ruled to which he may not be extradicted and would face discrimination. As you can see if Britain where to have proved that as you say, the IRA is involved in killing indiscriminately (and beating and crippling in the name of discipline or some internal "law" he would have been extradicted, as those actions are would have defeted a claim of political offence exemption.
A word about democracy censorship. One of the problems I find in discussing the North with many is the spin placed on Irish news stories by British Intelligence. As I said in an earlier post, I had occation to meet Frank Holroyd, an ex-British Intellengence agent, who worked on redirecting news reporting to distort that news that was not censored. An example was the reporting on the killing of Pat Campbell - head of the Shankill butchers. The Shankill Butchers would indescrimiatly take Catholics into the romper room, as they called their den, and torture them to death. When RUC and Army failed for years to act against them, the IRA killed Pat Campbell when an opportunity arose. It was reported in the New York Times, as Pat Campbell, a ShankelL Butcher, was killed in sectarian violence in Ireland by the IRA. Now, all that was true, but so out of context as to continue the belief that the IRA was involved in indescriminate killing. That is the kind of thing that in the press carries a lot of wieght, but in court is meaning less in light of the presentation of fact which put events in context.
Should you not, as a British voter ask, if English policies and tactics are justified, why is there censorship of the press about Ireland?
I truely hope you were not offended by the comment about research, and that much of what we are discussing will someday just be the historical background to our musical traditions. However, history not understood is as likely to be repeted as history forgoten.
Best wishes for peace in the New Year
Larry Otway