On last night's Jay Leno, he said, 'Some people say that Hurricane Katrina was in punishment for people's sins, but they have it all wrong. FEMA was the punishment.'

1. rarelamb: This notion that there is this large group of people who were unable to purchase gas is ridiculous. Even if they had only a portion each, they could have pooled their resources.
1. a.How many of your neighbors do you know well enough to suggest pooling money and cars and all the logistics that go with fleeing from your homes?
b. Say you have three dollars, another has $50, and someone else is flat broke. None of you has a car, except for one that has a habit of overheating.
c. Who decides whether pets can go along? How many of them? Say I don't have a pet and I don't want any of your damned smelly pets in the car.
d. However, I do have a baby- and someone else objects to having to watch their pet's reaction to an infant.
ad infinitum

2. rarelamb: Instead of 'can't' here is an example of 'can'. I used to be a waiter and all of the bus boys were mexicans (dish washers and cooks too). They lived in the poor section of town and lived 8 or so to a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment. They saved a bunch of money that they sent out to mexico for their families.

2. As you must know, immigrants and people just starting out have far different expectations than do main stream Americans. I manage rentals and I have had immigrants double and quadruple up to make the rent in addition to be able to send money home. Most Americans' lifestyle expectations are far higher- we think we need a whole lot more room than they make do with. In an emergency and while working toward a goal, people can and do lots of things they would not normally do. I once knew a German family who lived 9 to a house while they saved and scrimped to buy other houses. As each purchase became a reality, the group thinned but they all continued to pool their money toward the next house. How many Americans do that? Do you do that?

3. rarelamb: And yes, when I was a waiter I was part of your 'working poor'. We have the wonderful ability in this country to improve our lot when government is not 'keeping us down'.

3. Incidentally, when you were a waiter and "a member of the working poor", how old were you? Were you in college perhaps? Were your expectations for something much different?
a. One of the most heart wrenching mindsets belongs to the person or family or culture who literally cannot see his or her way out, who doesn't even know that there is a better way. People who have accepted for generations that a proportion of their number will go to prison, or be in trouble with the law or the 'system', that have to hide when the landlord shows up or there's a uniform at the door. If we - mainstream America - could reach the youngsters and convince them that life need not be that hard, that THEY can change it, we will have begun to heal our country. IMO

4. rarelamb: Here's something else I posted elsewhere: It seems to me that conservatives can appear 'mean' in public forums, blogs and discussions. I think it comes partly from the desire of people to 'want to do something'. When we see a problem, we want to 'fix it'.
4. The older definition of 'mean' is stingy and grasping. People have said that "Republicans" don't want people to starve or live in shacks but they don't want to spend any money on the problem. "Democrats", on the other hand, don't care how much money is spent on them as long as it isn't their money. I'd go a step farther. I'd say that Democrats realize the fact that when everybody chips in, it costs no one too much. Republicans, conversely, seem to resent every penny- it's the principle of the thing, you know. (As they say, though, when somebody says "It's not the money, it's the principle", rest assured, it's the money.

5. rarelamb: From my perspective, the cure is often worse than the problem. I have posted before about moral hazard. To review, moral hazard occurs after a contract, and describes the change in parameters/behaviors due to the contract. Examples would include:

- someone who purchases insurance may behave in a more risky fashion.
- people purchasing 3rd world debt with the assumption it will be covered by Other countries in the event of a default because they have before
- Savings and loans institutions that invest in more speculative investments because FDIC is increased to $100,000.

5. I think your perspective is seriously flawed. Do you really think that ordinary people think this way? Might you agree that it's the huge corporations that have profited mightily with that mindset?

6. rarelamb: We can see this kind of behavior in other government policies. In particular I see it in the way that government 'crowds out' traditional financial and moral relationships.
6. Did you know that in some modern countries where government does not 'crowd out traditional financial and moral relationships', people just plain do without? In the Philipines, where old age is revered far more than in the US, you get no governmental help with your oldsters, no matter how frail or needy they are or how expensive their needs become. People literally die because their care cannot be afforded. Is that what you want?

7. rarelamb: Women have babies out of wedlock more frequently, because the relative cost has decreased due to government aid.
7. Sure. That's why we have them.

8. rarelamb: People do not save as much because the government finances their unemployment and retirement.
8. The United States of America has a much lower rate of savings than most other modern countries, it is true. It is not just poor people, working or not.
a. Government aid is multifaceted. The biggest welfare community in the US is the big corporations, followed WAY down the dollar list by Reagan's 'welfare queens' and five-generation welfare families.

9. rarelamb: In essence, instead of taking care of themselves and their families, people have become more reliant on the government. The roles of the traditional family are being taken over by the government. This has had the effect of weakening the family in our society.
9. As a girl, my mother worked at a 'poor farm' where people who had nothing left went to live out their days. And remember the 'debtors' prisons'? Remember the stories of people literally turned out of their homes onto the streets? Would that suit you better?
a. Governmental programs- like Social Security - eased the end for a great many people. Do you want to go back to when it was every man for himself?
b. Welfare programs, even though they are subject to abuse - even by you - have saved a great many lives.

10. rarelamb: In this role of guarenteer of financial security, the government can not eliminate the risk, it can only move it. And it does this in a inefficient manner.
10. Yes. It is inefficient. Which is why we- you, me, the Republicans, the Democrats - should see to it that it is collected efficiently and disbursed humanely and where needed. WE are the government, you know.

11. rarelamb: In the case of the minimum wage, the government puts the same people it is trying to help out of work. By increasing the price for laber, the government decreases demand for that labor and increases supply, with the result that the unemployed increases.
11. What can I say? Bullshit The people actually laboring to produce the product are paid an infinitesimal part of the profit. Trickle down does not work- Wick UP is the norm.

Good lord. I'm going to stop.