Aw, to hell with it beachcomber, just for the exercise and for the benefit of GUEST 07 Oct 05 - 04:34 AM:

"Rules of Engagement" apply, no such thing applies to the terrorists they are fighting. Do accidents happen? Are mistakes made? Of course they do - that unfortunately is the nature of life.

Strategic bombing of civilian targets was something introduced to modern warfare in the First World War by the Germans, they continued this during the Second World War - unfortunately for them and their axis partners the allies were just so much better at it. To such an extent that, on viewing the bomb damage to German cities in the immediate aftermath of WWII, Joseph Stalin, darling of the socialist left, put on ice any plan he had to keep the Red Army rolling westward - at least until such time as he had acquired a strategic air force capability.

Please provide examples of places where the "British" terrorised civilians in the main. Please provide the list of countries that "Britain" invaded - you obviously think that it is impressive, I think compared to other Empire building nations you will find the list rather short. The "British Empire" was something founded on trade, consent and mutual protection "in the main".

You ask, "Why wasn't the Irish Woollens Industry, for instance,fostered under British Rule?" Then provide the answer, "Because it might have interfered with the British one." Somehow I find your logic a bit at fault here, if this Irish Woollens Industry was flourishing under British Rule wouldn't it be in effect part and parcel of the British Woollens Industry? The Linnen and Woollen industry based in Ireland declined because they did not, or could not, keep pace with advances in technology at the time and lost out to competition - not by any great plan of any British Government of the day. The Irish woollen industry and those based in the Scottish Borders did survive by opting to produce quality top end garments. I see that you are perfectly willing to accept, and quote, commercial reasons for the collapse of Verholme Shipyard in Cork yet trot out the line that the Irish Woollen Industry went under because of the machinations of the British Government - inconsistent and utterly ridiculous.

Oh dear!!! "Our people were exploited , that is beyond question." Agreed, but you will find no more so than anyone else living in Europe at that time, and a damn sight less than others living elsewhere in the world, not necessarily under the rule of Europeans.

Eh Beachcomber - back in those Victorian times, "people" tended not to have a hell of a lot to say in the matter, their rulers however did. The British Empire of that time was made up of Dominions, Colonies, Crown Territories, Protectorates and later Mandated Territories. Go and look up what those terms mean and how the individual countries actually came to be part of the British Empire.

As for this rant - "It was you who made ONE of this island for us, you who united us against your rule , including the very people who had been sent here by you to do your dirty work, because of the discriminatory laws you tried to enforce, it was you then also who divided us, with your cunning and your patronage of the minority to give them a feeling of being the chosen ones. You convinced them that they would fare better by throwing in with Britain. In the final analysis , did they? Are they any better off now ?.Our country could , as easily, have reached the same economic and social standard without your interference." What I personally did all that????

"Pax Britannia" a period recognised by historians the world over as beginning in 1815 at the end of the Napoleonic Wars until the outbreak of the First World War in 1914. It did exist Beachcomber, it did exist, it saw the ending of the slave trade, it saw the development of world trade and commerce, it saw the erradication of piracy, amazing breakthroughs and discoveries in the fields of technology, science and medicine - oh it did exist Beachcomber.

You passionately state that - "this country(Ireland) has never been fully conquered. .....Though often invaded,it never was, because, in every time, there was always some few who refused to accept domination by force of arms, and were able to steel others to join them in rebellion." Really? Irish Rebellions between 1798 and 1916 please?

In 1975 I can remember a Dutchman having been ridiculed by a self-proclaimed Brigade Sergeant in the IRA (which means of course that he was nothing of the sort) along the lines you cling to in your post. The gist of the message was - "We've never been conquered, whereas you bloody Dutch, Hitler went through you lot in seven days" To which the Dutchman replied, "That in assigning countries to races, had God given Ireland to the Dutch - it would now be one of the world's most advanced, wealthiest, liberal, progressive countries. If on the other hand God had given Holland to the Irish, it would have disappeared beneath the waters of the North Sea centuries ago."