On the contrary Mooman - 19 Oct 05 - 03:30 AM:

I am certainly not the one walking around with my eyes closed - or blinkered for that matter.

If what rarelamb did provide was opinion - it seems to have come from rather a wide range of extremely well considered, knowledgable and none to partisan sources, who seem to have written those opinions based upon the facts before them.

But here are some facts Mooman - In 1979 the UK was in a mess (Crisis! What Crisis??) The Conservatives won by a landslide because of a common realisation that something had to be done. According to what you seem to suggest with your woolley talk about society and community, the impression that the country was being run like Trumpton or Camberwick Green is ludicrous. The nation was bankrupt and sinking fast even after having gone to the IMF for loans to keep us afloat - Unions ran the country - not the elected government. That Mooman was FACT.

Within 10 years the situation had been completely turned round the UK had the healthiest economy in Europe - That Mooman is another FACT.

Now let's take your advice and take a look at - "what we see around us now as a result of her legacy", lets see if they - "speak for themselves and continue to do so." It has been around 15 years since Margaret Thatcher left Downing Street, during those 15 years we've had a Conservative Government until 1997 and a Labour Government from 1997 to the present day. How many of her policies have been reversed? None - How come Moo? - Don't wrack your brain the question's rhetorical - because her policies worked and they continue to do so. Margaret Thatcher's counterparts in both France and Germany dearly wished that they could have done the same. If they had those countries would not be in the state that they are in now. They could not impliment similar reforms because of their weak political systems and their own lack of courage and determination to bite the bullet and do what was right for their respective nations as a whole. Maggie did not suffer from any such doubt, she had the mandate from the people and the courage and determination to see the job through - in short Moo she provided Leadership (something hated and despised by the left, I know, you guys all like to believe that things happen by collective happen-chance, they don't - two people in a rowing boat after the ship has gone down, one of them has to be the Captain or both perish - that's another FACT Mooman).

The "me first" attitude prevalent in current society has always existed to deny that fact denies common human nature, there has never been any great sense of 'noblesse oblige' among the 'common folk' of the British Isles - that was the burden of the aristocracy. As for the state of all these areas of UK infrastructure, I would have hated to have seen what state they would have been in if things had been left to drift without her. Where would the necessary investment have come from Moo? - handouts from the EU, or more loans from the IMF. Neither would have worked because the Unions would have ensured that that little lot was squandered propping up no-hope, lame-duck industries.

Sometimes I think people like you must walk round with their eyes, ears and minds firmly closed.