Susu's Hubby isn't interested in "facts" Art. He's interested in attacking liberal thought, dismissing the enlightened, often intellectual content as unimportant or of less value than the (often untutored) opinions of the general public who are easily led by Madison Avenue's spin on politics as usual. The kind of idiots who voted in Dubya the second time. He's interested in blurring boundaries and mixing apples and oranges in any given discussion, then attacks when you won't accept HIS premise of how the argument should go. There are several folks at Mudcat who operate this way as they slog through political discussions. It's a waste of your breath to bother with them, except to occasionally offer a well-deserved verbal dope slap when they get too out of hand.