The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #83044   Message #1586834
Posted By: The Shambles
20-Oct-05 - 07:42 AM
Thread Name: Minister say's jamming OK in UK
Subject: RE: Minister say's jamming OK in UK
We should of course support all existing pub sessions by all means but let us look at the rather confused legal position for starting-up of any new ones under the new legislation.

Firstly - any licensee without entertainment permission would be unlikely to agree to hold a session and a local authority would be most unlikely to consider it as legal.

Even though there is some mileage in considering it as 'a performance of incidental live music' and exempt from the licensing requirement - it is rather unlikely to happen in the first place for this to be tested via the courts.

But even in a pub with entertainment permission - when some pubs only ask for permission for live music for two 'performers' - this would specifically make a session etc with more than two participants illegal.

S 177 of the Licensing Act 2003 means that if a pub has entertainment permission and a safe capacity of less than 200 - any non-amplified music with unlimited participants - (as long as there were not more than 200 of them) - will be free of imposed conditions - except for those based on two of the four main objects of the Act - protecting children from harm and the prevention of crime and disorder.

Effectively that means that although permission is required for non-amplified music - no real condition can be placed upon it. Which does rather question why permission for it should be required in the first place?

It is a bit unclear if all premises with a Premises Licence and a safe capacity of less than 200 - have to specifically request permission for this non-amplified music.

It is also unclear if any conditions like at what time entertainment must end - would be legal if applied by a LA to non-amplified live music in premises with a safe capacity of less than 200.

Unless moves are made to address the current uncertainty about the true legal status of non-amplified sessions etc - this will only get worse. This (and the increased workload) may extend the present 'honeymoon' period for existing sessions and keep them free from some local authority enforcement etc but will hardly encourage new ones to start.

I feel that a patchy situation where (some) Local Authorities concentrate initially on enforcement of the other aspects and turn a blind eye to (some) sessions etc but slowly wake-up to what the words of the Act actually say - will be as unsatisfactory for sessions etc - as this situation has been for them - in the last few years of the current legislation.

The rather silly situation is that if a non-alcohol serving cafe wished to provide non-amplified live music - they would have to apply for a Premises Licence in order to obtain entertainment permission - on which no real conditions could be placed. Considering what a complete waste of everyone's time this would be - the most likely outcome is that no non-amplified live music will take place in such premises. An outcome which is of benefit to no one.

If the words of the legislation can enable non-amplified sessions etc - without making them illegal without special permission -then we have to ensure that this can happen everywhere..

If the words of the legislation mean that sessions etc cannot be enabled and they are illegal without special permission - the words of the legislation will need to be changed.