those committing the crimes knew the consequences

Sorry Rapaire but unfortunately those committing ANY crimes do not do so with the expectation of getting caught:-( They inevitably think they can get away with it. Which means that punishment is not an effective deterrant.

Now, as to Susu's hubbys statement that it is about offering consequences for actions, oddly enough, I agree. I am not agreeing with the death penalty - I am quite against - but the only justifications are a) As a prevention of re-occurance and b) As a obvious consequence to the act so that at least the victims family can gain some closure from it.

So, it has been shown at least a 1000 times in the US since 1976 that it is not a deterrant. Prevention of re-occurance can also be achieved by incarceration until death. If we now rely on the remaining justification, vengance, should it not be left to those closest to the victim to decide? Ie the remaining family members or loved ones? Not an answer I'm afraid because I do not know and hopefuly never will know how I would feel under the circumstances.

I'm not trying to change the subject but if we're talking about killing then let's talk about it. All of it.

If you are not trying to change the argument why bring up anything else? What do you mean by 'All of it'? Do we include the millions who die because us in the West cannot be bothered to help them? Do we count those lost in wars? No, sorry, I for one am not 'game'. It's too big an issue if we include 'All of it'. If you want to start a thread on any other aspect of 'barbarity' feel free to do so.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome