Following up on the Simpson/Pacetti version of "Shawneetown" and the particular verse that I was interested in above, once I got the words down, I began to wonder about the meaning. If you compare Martin Simpson's version to Sam Pacetti's, you will notice that they are not exactly the same with regard to the first line. Martin has: "Them hoop-pole boys work loud and long", and Sam has: "Now whoop pole boys..." It reminds me of that recent book EATS, SHOOTS, AND LEAVES.
Are we talking about gunmen or pandas! Sam suggested that this first line might have to do with setting a cadence for poling. So are we talking about "whoops" or "hoops"? I was wondering if there might be such a thing as a "hoop-pole" and I Googled it. Sure enough, it was a rather common term in the 19th century. I found references to all kinds of place names from creeks to coves to woods to hills to ferries to townships, from North Carolina to Kansas, and from Maryland and Massachusetts to Indiana. Here is one particular reference that sort of defines what a "hoop pole" is: Click here

   To quote a footnote there: "[5] In an earlier day, barrel hoops were made of small hickory trees, split and shaved. The hoop-pole was a very familiar article of commerce, and of household defense."

And, another, very interesting site: Click here with a rather long quote about Mt. Verson, Indiana:

"Hoop-pole Township

The river traffic increased more and more as flatboats piled high with produce and grain plied the waters of Ohio on the way to the New Orleans market. A stopover at the local wharf brought welcome rest and a chance of refreshment for the crew at one of the two taversn. Thus came about the tale of HOOP-POLE TOWNSHIP.

The professional boatmen were a colorful, harddrinking, rough and tumble lot. Strong of muscle and courageous, they loved to fight and would do so just for fun. About 1832 ten or twelve flatboats were tied up at the local whart while the boatmen did a bit of merry-making at John Carson's aloon on Water Street. They were joined by men from an adjacent cooper shop; soon a general fight ensued in which the local coopers were badly beaten. When some of the rougher element of the town heard of the defeat, they armed themselves with hoop-poles (wooden staffs made of saplings cut in Lynn Township woods and used in the making of barrels) from the nearby cooper shop and converged upon the rivermen. The fight was renewed with such intensity that the boatmen were glad to flee back to their boats, their bodies bruised and their faces bleeding. All the way down the river their unsightly appearance was noticed and news of the hoop-pole fight spread quickly. From then on Mount Vernon was considered a rough river town and often referred to as "Hoop-pole Township."

I would suggest that this incident may be the historical basis for the verse in "Shawneetown", "The hoop pole boys talk loud and long (about what they did to the riverboatmen), wide as a barrel (the coopers trade)and twice as strong!"

Does anybody know about "hoop poles", or Mt. Vernon? This all may deserve a separate thread, but it seemed to me to fit into the general discussion of life on the Ohio that "Shawneetown" describes. I would like to know where this verse comes from and why it doesn't show up in anybody else's version. Does it go back to Dillon Bustin, or did it come into the song some other way? T.O.M/John Minear