That's exactly the point - people do tend to stay in a church despite their disagreement with central authority because they see it as their church. I've often been heard to say that the Catholic Church is as much mine, as it is the Pope's. If that's the case, why should I leave it?

I've never heard it put quite this way before, Joe. Almost makes me want to come back! See what a good job you're doing? :-)

And you're right -- it was VERY hard to leave. And there's a part of me that is and will always be Catholic, I suppose. The part that bows and kneels in reverence of divine Presence and mystery, the part that automatically lies in bed at night going over the events of the day ("examining conscience"), the part that loves to investigate, be inspired and moved beyond words by stories of exceptional people (saints) like Joan. Hmmm ... if there'd been no Church, we'd have no Joan either.

Makes it all worthwhile, somehow! For me, anyway.


Does organised religion help the planet's chances of future survival or does it hinder them and just present us all with further complications?

Or is it thought to do neither? And if organised religion is thought to do neither - perhaps it is now time to say thank you, goodbye and move on without it?

Shambles, that's rather like asking if human beings help or hinder the planet's chances of future survival. I think the most appropriate answer is a (well-qualified) duhhhhhhhhh ....

It's really not worth getting your knickers in a knot over. Human beings need religion. And like many birds and animals, they also need ritual. Just like they need to make music. It's a mystery as to why, of course. The answers must lie locked in the deepest recesses of the human brain and psyche, and science will no doubt one day discover these intimacies. But in the meantime, to the best of my knowledge, just as there has never been a human community on this planet that did not engage in some form of music making, there's also never been one without religion and ritual. Of whatever genre.

There may come a time when humans no longer need organized religions - mentally, emotionally or socially. In that case, rest assured that Mother Nature will dip deep into her evolutionary bag of tricks and see to the changes without any help from you, Shambles. If and when that day arrives, organized religions will gradually shrivel and wither, attracting fewer and fewer followers until, in time, they are nothing but a memory.

Kinda like wisdom teeth -- apparently since we've learned to cook and process food better, we don't need 'em anymore. So fewer and fewer people have them at all, and if they do appear they can cause problems in some people, requiring extraction. This can be a bit painful; sometimes bones need to be broken to get all the bits and pieces of 'em out -- but hey, the whole process is relatively short-lived. And in the meantime, are those of us who still sport well-placed, well-formed wisdom teeth somehow "deficient" on the evolutionary scale?

I don't think so!

daylia