Hey Shambles: Has the thought ever occurred to you that the person doing the action might actually be to blame? Where is indivdiual responsiblity in your scheme of things, or is it always something else?

Jerry

Of course and there is no attempt by me to remove this and excuse the individual - quite the opposite in fact. For are you saying that individuals are free of their individual responsibility when they become part of an organised religion or any other organisation? Is not every organisation comprised of individuals?

You do seem still be to be placing a defence for the bad things done because of and in the name of organised that you would not make for other organisations.

Most of us would accept that the abuse of children by those who are entrusted with the child's welfare and education is a bad thing. And most of us would I hope consider that people who organise themselves into organisations (or rings) to this is a bad thing. No one is arguing that it is only organised religions cause their ministers to abuse children placed in their care. The fact that there is no shortage of non-ministers and non-members of organised religions who also abuse children placed in their trust, would tend to support this.

However, certain organised religions, also rather up-the-stakes by also requiring their ministers to be celibate. A course that many individuals do seem to be able to deal with. But with its many sacrifices and temptations few of us would contend this to be an easy path. The wisdom of such a course still remains a controversial issue for many reasons.

You could still place all of the responsibility or blame for this upon the individual so far - but the test of these organised religions come when some of the human beings that organised religion has placed in this position, do give-in to temptation and abuse children in their trust. There is after all no shortage of opportunity presented for these ministers to abuse children. Indeed a cynic may argue that such a system is the most effective paedophile ring ever devised - to ensure the protection of the abusers.

But no one is seriously suggesting that this is intentional but the term 'accident waiting to happen' comes to mind and the consequence to lives of the young victims of this 'accident' is about a serious as it gets. So having identified – what in the UK would be called 'an accident black spot' - is the record of organised religions preventing such accidents a good one? Just as importantly – is the situation really any better now - as a result of the many high-profile cases that we hear about and the many more low-profile ones that we do not?

Is this a case of good people doing bad things because of organised religion? Especially when known offending ministers are simply and repeatedly moved by this organised religion? Is organised religion responsible or to blame under these circumstances? Or can yet more excuses be found for why the bad things done because of and in the name of organised religion should not be treated and responsibility accepted like any other cause? And not denied, minimised and excused and some sort of special case made.

When there is publicity about these people making use of the internet and organise themselves online - are there not are loud judgement calls for the whole of the internet to be blamed, closed down and its use further controlled and limited - often from organised religions?