Unfortunately terrorists/insurgents/freedom fighters call them what you will, DO USE not only 'teenagers' but children to advance their cause, they are normally used as 'bait', they are normally used to create an incident, they are used to attract police, emergency services and security forces. The terrorist organisations in Sri Lanka, Palestine and Northern Ireland, all used children and teenagers in this way, so why should those in Iraq be any different, particularly those who might have done a bit of reading and are facing British Troops.

In Iraq the publishing/reporting of this incident will not affect anything, particularly not down in Basra, where this incident happened nearly two years ago. If anyone thinks that none of those Iraqi 'teenagers' complained or told anyone about what happened to them at the time, then they are being very niave. The 'whistleblower' as he is termed in the press did not bring this into the light of day for any high moral purpose, they sold it to the "News of the World" to make money, had the former been the case a copy of the recording should have gone to the Military Police long before now. By the way I do not believe that this is the sort of thing that would "shown in messes" anywhere.

What happened immediately before what is seen on this amateur video is important in terms of context. For a full understanding I also believe it will prove equally as important to study the overall situation in the area both before and after the incident shown.

From what I have seen, the Troops were not armed, they were carrying batons and shields, not guns. We have heard reported that the incident occurred during a riot in which a grenade had been thrown and that British Troops had been stoned.

SOP would be for nominated personnel present to observe the crowd, others would record in writing, or visually, the behavior of the crowd and how incidents develop. The reason for doing this is to identify those responsible for aggitating the crowd. Once identified, a snatch squad is organised and you go out into the crowd and grab them, that squad does not go out carrying arms, they are equipped as those shown in the video (Batons and Shields) So was this a snatch squad? I would tend to think that it was.

McGrath of Harlow, in his post of 13 Feb 06 - 10:32 PM says:

"you try to prevent them from doing harm" - now exactly how you do that in the middle of a riot situation, where you, as the soldier, are going to be heavily outnumbered, is something that maybe MGOH can explain but I cannot. One thing I can say is that in responding to that sort of situation you always deploy in such a way that those rioting know that they have a clear route to disperse, therefore maybe the prevention from doing harm comes in the form of letting them know that they can run away if necessary, it prevents escallation of the situation.

"you try to capture them" - I would agree with respect to the ring-leaders, the remainder, what are you going to charge them with? What are you going to do with them? Who are you going to use to look after them? Where are you going hold them? Sorry MGOH a pointless exercise, they will be back out on the streets rioting in next to no time, unless of course you are advocating indefinite internment for all and sundary.

"if need be you kill them" - Really, in the sort of situation that led to this incident definitely not, and there are very clear rules of engagement before anyone fires and when that happens first shots above the heads of the crowd, then deliberate fire at identified aggitators.

"There's no point in kicking them about, and anyone who wastes their time and energy doing that kind of crap is just making it more dangerous for everyone, and helping the other side." Well actually MGOH that is not exactly true, it is often extremely effective. Anyone ever heard anyone recall the "Good old days, when there was little or no street crime, where if some young tear-away was causing trouble the local beat bobby just took him aside and gave him a clip around the ear to straighten him out" Now the clip around the ear was generally a damn site more than that, whoever was causing the trouble got a bloody good hiding and it was clearly understood that if the behaviour did not alter then the dose would be repeated - it was called rough justice and it tended to work.

Latest is that a Corporal in the Light Infantry has been arrested and the matter is under investigation. I only ever had dealings with the SIB once, they do tend to be very thorough, unlike MGOH, I have no grounds for doubting that they will pursue this diligently and to the full letter of the law, but only time will tell.