(Paul Burke....I have tossed Occam's Razor into these discussions a few times in the past...the usual response goes along the lines of "Oh, that's just YOUR belief, and why should I accept it when it has no more basis than mine?" ...it's useless to explain why it's a form of a universal logical principle)

ummm...Little Hawk. The point is, I don't consider *life* to BE something that one "believes in". That is a category error. Life is a scientific, technical term for matter that is so constituted as to be able to replicate and reproduce.
   Do you consider lichen and bacteria and yeast spores to be 'concious'? If you do...(yes, I have read enough of your point of view to see why you might)...then we can't even talk. I do NOT believe, assume, postulate or accept that there is some 'life force' totally indepemdant FROM the material world that gives parts of the material world 'awareness'. Might be some, but I sure don't know how we could even theoretically be aware of it, so just shrug when it is put forth as fact.

So, for me, life is one form OF matter, and consciousness is an aspect of a very complex form of matter...a "critical mass" is one way to say it. I don't believe flowers are 'conscious' when they exhibit phototropism, and I don't attribute 'reflective self-concern' to beetles and sagebrush. I do have a 'reverence for life', (though I worry about the term being misinterpreted) insofar as I believe that humans should not use their complex self-aware status to set themselves above the rest of life and wantonly destroy other forms. It simply is not in their best interest. I do NOT think, however, that it makes any cosmic difference. The Universe simply doesn't 'care' whether this tiny little planet or its inhabitants survive for 100 years or a couple more billion. WE care, because we CAN care..."care" is a word that only makes sense for higher forms of life which do have 'consciousness'..(the way *I* view consciousness)...(I am not sure whether Chongo 'cares', but that is largely a matter of arbitrary drawing of lines ...I'll gladly include him for the sake of the discussion ☺)


...well, this has strayed from Astrology, but in a couple more paragraphs, I could make points about the relationship of beliefs and knowledge and why 'belief' in principles of astrology are related to beliefs about 'universal life force'..etc..but you see where it all leads....


and...*daylia*...if you thought my comments about 'messing with my life' were serious, you really have got WAY too much 'self' invested in this discussion.

(hey,Gervase...I, too, seem to be a pretty good, inteligent, sterling fellow, according to my chart...I wonder why two smart guys like us didn't start earlier and make 'get rich from astrology' if it's so useful & important? Maybe it just ain't in the stars...)