Yeah, it's intriguing all right. It's difficult for anyone to abandon an argument they have become attached to over a period of time, because to do so does represent defeat to them.

I'm fond of considering different viewpoints, examining things from all angles, and I have to say I'm beginning to appreciate Roger's point on all this stuff. I'm not sure I'd be as persistent in making it as he has been, though. There's a point where I just shrug and walk away from something like this, because I figure there's no changing people's minds about it.

I would be delighted if the sort of sadistic backbiting and ego games that some people indulge in here would cease...but I know it's not going to, so I just shrug and live with it...and sometimes I slip into it myself in reaction to it. (that can easily happen, it's a way of relieving stress)

Like I said earlier, I've seen this sort of thing occur in virtually every group I've ever been around. The only thing that can prevent it from occuring...or stop it soon when it does...is extremely good and focused leadership that is absolutely fair to everybody and doesn't waver in its principles. And I mean extremely good leadership. It's a very rare thing. I've seen it, but not here.