What amuses on this thread more than anything is the constant fundie tactic of resorting to saying Julius Caesar never existed. Even if he didn't, that does nothing to bolster the case for Jesus--damages it in fact--and if he did that does nothing to bolster the case for Jesus either. Pointless but amusing endeavor.

Really, folks, stick to the facts. I've laid them out for you. Let's go over it carefully:

1. The NT and the apocryphal and gnostic writings present extremely different Christs not only from each other but within the bodies of these works. No one historical 2000 years ago could be that mythologized in only 2 or 3 centuries unless there was a deliberate attempt to hide his identity and why would that be unless he was a criminal?

2. He is called a savior and his name just happens to mean savior. Obviously, Jesus was as much title as Christ.

3. He was not the first crucified savior much less the only one.

4. No historians or chroniclers of his time or the generation after have anything to say about him historically.

5. The gospel writers were unfamiliar with the geography of Palestine and his travels as laid out by them are often impossible and many of the cities mentioned in the bible are fictitious.

6. Josephus was governor of Galilee and visited every part of it, wrote a history of it and made detailed maps of it. No mention of a Nazareth or Jesus Christ. Origen couldn't find Nazareth despite being born and raised in that very area and he was an early Church Father!!

7. Philo invented the concept of the Logos made flesh, was a friend of Pontius Pilate and wrote a biography of the man. He also was in Jerusalem when Christ supposedly went there. Nowhere does he mention Christians, Christ or Jesus. No does he mention any trial or crucifixion of any such person.

8. Paul never wrote a word about a historical Jesus and did not place him in Palestine. In his own words, he stated he learned the Jesus story from no man but instead met with Christ in the third heaven--probably a drug-induced vision.

9. Strip away the myth from the man and tell me what you are left with.

10. Try to reconcile the gospel stories (no you can't add or omit anything from any of the gospels since you have no way or knowing what might be factual and what isn't) and tell me how this was an historical account. In fact, just tell me what the last words of Jesus were.

11. And if you cannot make the case for a historical Christ, then what was Jesus originally and how did belief in him arise and what did that belief signify to those who held it?