The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #75217 Message #1752746
Posted By: Amos
04-Jun-06 - 11:51 AM
Thread Name: BS: Help! The computer ate OH & FL votes!
Subject: RE: BS: Help! The computer ate OH & FL votes!
From a correspondent on IP LIst:
Subject: RE: [IP] more on Was the 2004 election stolen? Yes.
Dave - As an Ohio resident who also personally observed and recorded
the 2004 election vote recount in Greene County, I can attest to the
fact that the systematic manipulation of the recount process was
managed by phone calls and directives from SoS Blackwell's office. I
was there when the calls came in. I observed that the statutory
procedures we fledgling observers had been recently trained in were,
in fact, not followed - and when challenged, the Board of Elections
officials merely stated "they always did it this way." The Cuyahoga
County BOE was indicted for election law crimes for conducting their
2004 recount using the same process, because they had prosecutors
willing to take on the case. The illegal recount process was
systematic and controlled by the Secretary of State, now candidate
As far as Manjoo goes, or Steve Hertzberg for that matter, they have
been consistently publishing the same position since 2004, and I
invite them to reopen the issue themselves. To look at the mountains
of evidence compiled by grassroots Ohio activists - collaborations of
statisticians and math professors among them - and national groups
such as the one I copy below. I welcome people to read Kathy Dopp's
statistical analysis based on Ohio precinct data which knocks dead
Warren Mitofksy's weak and handwaving response suggesting there was
bias in his exit polls which showed Kerry winning Ohio. See: http://
uscountvotes.org/ Which is now the National Election Data Archive
project, a people's project to collect vote actuals data in all
future elections to prevent this kind of catastrophe from occurring
The National Election Data Archive publicly released a paper "2004
Presidential Election – Compendium of Attempts to Dismiss Vote Fraud"
which solidly rebuts, in 6 short pages, the academic arguments which
claim to have shown that there is no vote fraud/miscounts in U.S.
The short compendium of academic attempts to dismiss vote fraud
includes claims made by the Democratic National Committee and
pollster Warren Mitofksy among others:
Every argument that Mitofksy, Election Science Institute, the
Democratic National Committee, and others have made which purports
that there is no evidence of vote miscount in U.S. elections is
refuted in a page or less in this short compendium by the National
Election Data Archive's volunteer statisticians and mathematicians.
Warren Mitofsky is very well respected within AAPOR due to his past
work and leadership. Consequently Mitofsky's position, that exit
poll discrepancies were caused by partisan response bias rather than
vote miscounts is given great weight within AAPOR. However, the
National Election Data Archive, describes recent Mitofsky analyses
which were presented by Mitofsky and Fritz Scheuren at recent ASA.org
and AAPOR.org conferences, as "sophistry" rather than mathematically
The National Election Data Archive points out that the National
Election Pool (NEP) and Mitofsky have not yet released any exit poll
data or analysis publicly that supports this response bias
hypothesis. Yet all the data regarding pollster conditions which
Mitofsky claims they analyzed would not pose any risk to voter
confidentiality to release.
The National Election Data Archive invites everyone to read its
concise paper which solidly rebuts all the arguments made to date
which claim to demonstrate a lack of evidence of vote fraud in U.S.
(Leaving my contact info out)