Just love these sweeping generalizations. Not all sports fans are knuckle draggers. In fact I've seen some folkies who looked like they just learned to walk upright that morning. I love football (have no time for the word soccer) and I love folk music and both can live in harmony, but not in the same room. Dave hit the nail on the head. Most of the pubs in Ireland have a public bar which is where the tv resides and a lounge (which is a separate room) where the music takes place. This gives you options at least. I hate these open plan designs where the bars end up looking like barns and the patrons end up behaving like they belong in one. Den