Guest, your "cavemen of Tora Bora" spent a couple of decades beating the crap out of the Russians, using every form of weapon from knives and rocks up to SAMs and explosives. They salvaged damaged/abandoned Russian tanks to use against the Russians. Due to a shortage of SAMs, they *invented* the idea of using anti-tank rockets against helicopters (you stand somewhere high and lure the helicopter into the valley, so you can fire down at it). American "advisors" (CIA) helped with training, and supplied various bits of kit like missiles. And you'd have us believe they're a bunch of ignorant savages who haven't advanced past spears and flintlocks? Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with their take on religion, nor with their take on the treatment of women and children. But to dismiss them as "cavemen" is utterly ludicrous.

And maybe you forgot that the guys in the plane were actually from Saudi Arabia. Yes, the same Saudi Arabia that supplies a crapload of oil. Yes, the same one with massive airports, everyone owning a car and consumer gadgets by the zillion. Yes, the one that supplies plenty of the pilots for airlines such as UAE.

Oh, and we've got more people in on the conspiracy now - every TV news station and newspaper. Oh, let's say another round thousand average American civilians, shall we?

Carol: Iran/Contra, probably a fair number of CIA people were complicit. Outside of that, pretty damn few. You certainly didn't have a couple of thousand average firefighters, policemen, journalists and investment bankers in on it! And it's not too difficult to imagine that the CIA guys thought it was all OK - let's face it, the CIA had been working to undermine a whole bunch of countries for years, and nothing they did impacted on any US citizen. And when it all came out, the press crucified the government, did they not?

Pentagon-wise, see http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77.htm. The security cameras certainly do not show the plane on impact, only the fireball of the explosion, which obscures everything else, so you're right that it isn't evidence of a plane hitting. You *can* see that there was nothing next to the building at the time though, which means that either whatever did it managed to cover a pretty serious distance in a very short time, or there was a bomb inside. And as that site points out, focussing on those pictures is conveniently ignoring a whole bunch of eyewitnesses. Plus of course everyone from the military, firefighters, police, medics and forensics who was on the scene.

Graham.