Sorry, Dick, if I got the wrong idea about the point of this, but I remain sceptical. My 13-year old son has just taken his grade 5 saxophone exam. He worked hard for weeks on the performance pieces and scales, had them more or less note-perfect then, in the exam room with a piano accompanist he'd barely met, panicked and "fell off" the most complicated piece for several bars. We await the results with trepidation but the experience was not a positive one for him. I go along with his teacher's exam-oriented agenda because that's all there is on offer, but to me it seems that he gets a lot more enjoyment playing in the school band than rehearsing exam pieces. I agree that younger kids can't rely on self-motivation alone, but doesn't the regular lesson and occasional band performance fulfil that function whether or not exams are involved?

>> Finally I disagree with you Brian about Traditional music in England never being stronger, It seems no stronger than at the beginning of the folk revival <<

Well I wasn't there at the beginning of the folk revival, which is why I said "stronger than it's been for years". I refer to the number of young people I see - yes, at festivals rather than folk clubs, but also in informal local sessions - playing English music on fiddles, melodeons and all the rest. I don't mean just the young concert performers, but kids doing it for fun, and honing their skills just for the sake of being good at what they do.

>> The average man in the street hadnt heard of Martin Carthy then and he hasnt heard of him now. <<

I'm not sure what that fact signifies. Sure the English don't value their traditions sufficiently, but as I said I would look towards long-standing cultural factors rather than the absence of structured learning and examination.

(From Stallion)
>> It may also help impoverished folkies to supplement gigging with lessons! <<

Many of us already do that, exams or no.