Joe: Apologies in advance if you consider this inflammatory, and delete it if you want. But Shambles has specifically requested a thread to answer this question, and I guess I'm dumb enough to stick my head above the parapet.

catspaw49: Perhaps they are waiting for YOU to provide the answer as to WHY YOU ARE STILL HERE after being asked in plain terms by Max to leave.

Shambles: I judge that may be the subject for another thread and not for this one...However, as I am limited to this one thread perhaps you could start a new thread with your question clearly indicated in the title - and I may just answer it for you there.

Background:
Joe's description of Shambles' posting behaviour, and reasoning for his being on 'special measures'
Max's State of the Union address

OK Shambles, you think that something isn't being done right. Fair enough. You ask Joe and Jeff to change it, giving their reasons. They consider your request, but turn it down, giving their reasons. Discussion continues, but you fail to bring up an argument that they find compelling. The honourable approach at this point is to accept that the forum won't quite be what you want, and either (a) stay around because the good points outweigh the bad points, or (b) leave because you can't accept how it is being run now. And let's be clear what you didn't like: renaming threads, deleting spam or flames, and deleting a post without adding significant comments for why it was deleted. These are all standard features of every moderated message board. Mudcat is (as defined in its FAQ) a moderated message board, and it was a moderated message board when you joined.

That all happened in 2004. At that point, you launched a campaign of mass-copying/quoting your complaints across unrelated threads. By 2006, this had become severe enough to warrant the site owner, Max, requesting you to leave, and Joe restricting your posting. So the simple question is: why have you not realised that what you're asking for will never happen, and either stayed around and stopped hassling Max and Joe about it, or left the site? This place is not communally owned, and it's not a public space - it's a private site owned by Max, who's delegated Joe and Jeff to look after it, and which we use under the terms which they decide between them. So "love it or leave it" is very much the order of the day.

This isn't intended to insult you. As far as possible, I've tried to avoid insulting you (although I'm afraid I have snapped a few times, for which I apologise). I hope no-one else will use the thread for that purpose, either. But I am trying to get to the bottom of your reasoning. Unless you consider Joe, Jeff and Max to be so weak-willed that they'll cave in after massive repetition of the same request, it was clear back in 2004 that the procedural changes you requested were not going to happen (because they told you so, with reasons), and that your barrage of criticism was going to have no effect. So what is your purpose in staying here and doing it?

Graham.