The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #94361   Message #1826611
Posted By: sian, west wales
04-Sep-06 - 11:35 AM
Thread Name: Folklore: What's in a Name
Subject: RE: Folklore: What's in a Name
Azizi, as always - most interesting!

I won't comment on what the site owners' intention is, as I don't know anything about them.

But, on the subject of names and sounds, you're right about identity. Very much a Welsh thing, and I would suggest that it is important to any group which need to promote a group cohesiveness.

For example, older Welsh women might have been registered as Shan instead of Sia^n (the hat should be on the 'a' but that doesn't show up on every web browser) because the parents wanted non-Welsh speakers to pronounce the name correctly. A growing Welsh sense of 'Welshness' IMO means that parents these days will automatically use 'Sia^n'. The parents of an even earlier generation - those now in their 80s plus perhaps - would not have registered a child as 'Sia^n' at all, but as 'Jane' ... and then proceded to call her Sia^n around the house! Heck, not even an earlier generation: I'm Jane on my birth certificate (and I'm not in my 80s!)

Similarly, over the last 3 generations, Welsh surnames have undergone transformation. Many Thomases have changed back to the Welsh 'Tomos', Evanses to 'Ifans' and quite often even to 'ap Ifan' (son of Ifan). (Few women use the 'ach Ifan' though.) Some Preeces/Prices/Rices/etc are reverting to 'Rhys' or 'ap Rhys'. Etc.

In actual fact, a lot of people don't use their 'style' (as west Walians refer to 'surname') at all. My godson's registered name is Gwion Dulais. He's Gwion; his dad is Dulais. There's no other surname on his birth certificate.

And then there's the famous Welsh nick-name which is bestowed/inflicted on you by your peers or community. Few people use my actual birth name; I'm 'Sian Toronto' to most people because that's what the people of Carmarthen decided to call me. (When I moved here, there was someone of my name already working in my field so I was given a different name ... and had no say in the matter.) My neighbour is referred to as Roland the Wreath because he took it upon himself a few years to take up collections for funeral flowers when any of the Old Dears in the neighbourhood passed on. I know a man called Dennis Gwallt Neis (Dennis Nice Hair) because he has this remarkable natural (??) marcel wave. The regulars in my local pub include Dai Tractor, Dai Scaffold, Dai Dentist, Dai Felin Wen, and Dai Collier. I'm not sure of the surnames of any of them, but I think at least two of them are 'David Evans'. There's a whole body of Welsh humour based on these nicknames.

snip: non-African Americans and African Americans don't like names or other words that begin with more than two consonants, or more than one vowel, or have more than three syllables

Unlike the Welsh, then! Lots of names, male and female, beginning with 2 vowels. To a non-Welsh speaker, there are lots beginning with 2 consonants, although Welsh-speakers would recognize LL (for example) as being one letter, and 'Gw' as being a consonant + vowel. Quite a few 3 syllable forenames, but not so many of 4+ that I can think of.

'Eirian' is an interesting name as it is generally a girl's name in North Wales and a boy's name in South Wales.   

Another Welsh custom, particularly with male children, is to name them after the local geography, so you get a lot of men with middle names the names of rivers and counties - bringing the sense of belonging down to a very local level.   Women get named after seasons and weather for some reason: i.e. Haf (summer) or Eira (Snow).

Apart from Wales, I know of a friend of Irish extraction who spells his name KilBride. I've also come across two brothers, one of whom uses 'Duff' as a last name and the other 'FitzDuff'. Someone once explained it by declaring in funereal tones, "Don't ask! It's all Political." So I didn't, but it's stuck in my mind ever since.

sian