Sorry Shambles, not a wind-up. A living, breathing person who posts here under his own name (were you really called 'Shambles' by your parents? If so, you have my sympathy). Anyway, I'm afraid you lost me there somewhere round the back of the sofa. I was following your arguments until you started jumping around the house; what exactly is the point you're trying to make?

Aside from that, it would have been nice to have had some proper argument about the ethics of shooting and food production in general, but that seems as unlikely as ever, reading the threads here.

I can sympathise with Ard Macha because he seems to be speaking from experience (you should take down the registration numbers of any vehicles belonging to people who do that and report them to the police or the RSPCA - as I said, that sort of behaviour is appalling), but for the rest, it seems that the arguments are based on a level of ignorance, blind prejudice and kneejerk anthropomorphism that one would expect to see in young teenagers.

So, how about some sensible debate on the issue? Please. Or are we always going to resort to 'yah-boo' name calling and personal attacks? And does the abuse actually make the abuser feel better? To use terms like 'inbred idiot', 'twisted', 'moronic', and 'liar' is hardly going to make an opponent sit up and take stock and think: 'Gosh, this person really does have the answers. I can see the error of my ways and will become a vegan forthwith!'. Or is the abuse in some way cathartic? Or, dare I say it, 'fun' - a little thrill at an anonymous insult delivered to someone you've never met. A bit like sticking out your tongue behind the teacher's back in ther maturity stakes, perhaps?

So, to get back to the issue in hand, could someone please tell me why it is wrong to shoot animals for food in the wild when we electrocute them, slit their throats or shoot them in slaughterhouses? And why it is wrong to shoot pests but not to poison them?

And, when replying, if your first temptation is to unleash a torrent of abuse, just pause for a second, take a deep breath and do something more constructive (like clicking on the Hunger Site or something). You're not going to change anyone's mind with vitriol.