the law needs to ignore the do gooders and make a sentence something these anti social scum never want to face again

Yeah, cos locking them all up in the society of other people who can teach them how to be better criminals works *so* well. Making prisons disgusting places worked *so* well back in Victorian (and pre-Victorian) times. And deterrence with corporal and capital punishment and transportation stopped *so* many criminals. Right?

I'm up for street-sweeping or other similar cleanup work to be done by people arrested for being drunk and disorderly or littering - punishment fitting the crime, and all that. But there's a big difference between punishment for doing something stupid, and rehabilitation because in all your life with your family and friends you've never known anything other than what you've been doing, or retraining to be able to hold down a job on the outside because you've never had a proper education.

Graham.