All of this simply baffles me. Where I was raised (NYC), you ain't Irish unless your grandfather/mother was born in Ireland. You are Irish-American if a Great Grandparent was born in Ireland, and simply American if anything less than that. It's a cultural issue. Sure, we have lots of St. Paddy's Day 'Irish" who drink themselves silly and vomit in the streets but that's another thread entirely.

I think if you went by the standard I was raised with - a grandparent born in Ireland than the figure of 4 million I quoted is close to correct. Being of Irish descent way back when is a whole nuther thing than self-identifying as being culturally Irish within the United states but that distinction is often lost on folks who weren't raised in fairly closed Irish communities, the kind you still find in PRovidence RI, ostom MA and New York.

I'm not trying to argue that them other folks aren't of Irish descent, just that they don't identify as Irish culturally.

As for the politics arguments - oh please.